Question for Moderators
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Iluvatar



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 4
Location: MS USA

PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2005 3:31 am    Post subject: Question for Moderators Reply with quote

I asked Yui a few questions earlier by PM which led to a post here for moderator discussion...it should be self-explanatory.

Iluvatar,

I don't want to seem like I'm the super administrator that makes this call (I'm just the host, honest!), so let's ask the entire set of moderators and come to a consensus? Why don't you post this in the MudLab Administration forum and see what comes of it.

Sorry for the terse reply. I'm supposed to be working =).

Iluvatar wrote:
Thanks for your consideration.

I just have a few quick questions about your perceptions of guidelines for a few potential issues so we can sing from the same sheet of music.

My perception of acceptible language is basically if they can freely say it on Prime Time Network TV without bleeping, then it's common, modern speech whether we agree personally or not. Do you concur or would you prefer to just let the maturity level demonstrated by the posters dictate potential actions if any?

We know how blatant flaming became an issue on TMS and there will always be some to a certain extent. From what I've seen, generally flames flare for a bit then gradually die out unless some fool repeatedly stokes the fire. Any guidance on when enough is enough?

Is referencing Mu* affiliation via avatar or title acceptible or would you prefer all forms of advertising not be used?
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eiz



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 152
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2005 3:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

My perception of acceptible language is basically if they can freely say it on Prime Time Network TV without bleeping, then it's common, modern speech whether we agree personally or not. Do you concur or would you prefer to just let the maturity level demonstrated by the posters dictate potential actions if any?


I'm not personally too concerned with language (actually: I'm not concerned with language at all, but people who swear constantly on forums tend to be very angry people). As long as it's in English that is. Wink

Quote:

We know how blatant flaming became an issue on TMS and there will always be some to a certain extent. From what I've seen, generally flames flare for a bit then gradually die out unless some fool repeatedly stokes the fire. Any guidance on when enough is enough?


Hard to say. One thing I do want to say though is that I don't think removing posts outright is a good idea unless it's spam or... you know, goat porn or something. I guess we'll burn that bridge (ha ha) when we come to it.

Quote:

Is referencing Mu* affiliation via avatar or title acceptible or would you prefer all forms of advertising not be used?


I think it's fine. Just like talking about your mud is fine. When does it become advertising? Well, imagine you removed the name of the mud and obscured the name of the poster. Is the post still relevant? If so, I think it's OK. Also, I leave my MUD address so that people can come and find me to chat if they want.
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Tyche



Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 176
Location: Ohio, USA

PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2005 4:00 am    Post subject: Re: Question for Moderators Reply with quote

Iluvatar wrote:

My perception of acceptible language is basically if they can freely say it on Prime Time Network TV without bleeping, then it's common, modern speech whether we agree personally or not. Do you concur or would you prefer to just let the maturity level demonstrated by the posters dictate potential actions if any?


Hell yes. That is I damn well hope so.


P.S. This post is a test.


Almost forgot... a general suggestion to whomever.

Lose the newbie forum. It's insulting, an invitation to low signal, and is redundantly served by most every other mud forum.
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KaVir



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 565
Location: Munich

PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2005 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't really care about language, either. If it should become a problem, we can always address it then.

Quote:
Lose the newbie forum. It's insulting, an invitation to low signal, and is redundantly served by most every other mud forum.


There will invariably end up being newbie questions, in which case you've got three choices:

1) Delete them.

2) Leave them in the closest matching forum.

3) Move them to a newbie forum.

Personally I feel that 3 is the better choice, as 2 would spread the low-signal posts across the forums and 1 is a bit too judgemental for my tastes. Some newbie posts can also provide inspiration for other, high-signal posts.
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eiz



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 152
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2005 8:18 am    Post subject: Re: Question for Moderators Reply with quote

Tyche wrote:

Lose the newbie forum. It's insulting, an invitation to low signal, and is redundantly served by most every other mud forum.


I don't really have a problem with the newbie forum, but it does serve little purpose. That reminds me, though, did we ever decide for or against having offtopic forums of some kind? For stuff like, say, this thread. Smile

BTW, I'm doing phpbb surgery at the moment (ugh). Hopefully nothing will break.
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Scandum



Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 28
Location: I'm in the TV

PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2005 9:06 am    Post subject: Re: Question for Moderators Reply with quote

Iluvatar wrote:
My perception of acceptible language is basically if they can freely say it on Prime Time Network TV without bleeping, then it's common, modern speech whether we agree personally or not.

Time for one of my famous rants Twisted Evil

It's well possible to go way out of line without swearing. What this really is about is power, the power to control others. I come from a country where there is no bleeping and nobody makes a fuss about it either. Maybe this is really a typical example of arrogant americans imposing their values on the rest of the world? Wink

Factually the USA is the only nation that grants it's citizens freedom of speech, Europe doesn't come anywhere close. Why aren't americans proud of that instead of trying to follow some multi billionair TV channel owners that gave in to censorship out of fear to lose a couple of bucks?


Tyche wrote:

Lose the newbie forum. It's insulting, an invitation to low signal, and is redundantly served by most every other mud forum.

You really mean, make that "sign up" button even more obscure, don't you? Razz

I must say that I've always been annoyed by total newbies spamming TMC with their requests for coding help. The newbie forum seems indeed an invitation for that kind of background noise.

Iluvatar wrote:
Is referencing Mu* affiliation via avatar or title acceptible or would you prefer all forms of advertising not be used?

You can set your mud's homepage in the field of your profile. That seems like the best way to go about it to me.
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Tyche



Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 176
Location: Ohio, USA

PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2005 11:19 am    Post subject: Re: Question for Moderators Reply with quote

eiz wrote:

BTW, I'm doing phpbb surgery at the moment (ugh). Hopefully nothing will break.


The subsilver theme is gone.
It's dark in here.



I've been eaten by a grue.
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Molly O'Hara



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 99
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2005 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally I don't have a problem with 'bad language', probably because I swear a bit too much myself.

I do however have a big problem with two things; arrogance and stupidity.

Hopefully we won't see too much of either on this forum. I honestly think that there won't be any problem, as long as the posters all respect each other, even when we happen to have different opinions. (And hopefully we will differ on many subjects, since that is the foundation for any interesting discussion list).

As the member list grows, there might be more issues concerning respect, but let's deal with those if and when they occur. Razz
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Alayla



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 88
Location: Prague

PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2005 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Offensive language well used does not bother me - as long as it contributes anything to the discussion and is meaningful or even important for getting your point across. I'd rather moderate the discussions so that they stay on topic (or split into discussions on different topics), and make sure that topics are related to mudding. I have more problems with useless garbage of any kind, be it personal attacks or gigglebounces, and I'd like to see very little of that here.

As for the newbie forum, I agree with KaVir. We cannot prevent that sort of questions popping up, if we want to keep the forum open and non-elitist, and it's good to keep them in one place where you can choose not to read them or to help out if you're in a good mood. If we could get somebody with a lot of nerve and patience to moderate that forum, it would be even better.
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cron0s



Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 34
Location: UK

PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2005 1:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Question for Moderators Reply with quote

Iluvatar wrote:

My perception of acceptible language is basically if they can freely say it on Prime Time Network TV without bleeping, then it's common, modern speech whether we agree personally or not. Do you concur or would you prefer to just let the maturity level demonstrated by the posters dictate potential actions if any?


I agree with most other comments on this, personally I am not offended by any kind of 'bad language' but rarely use it myself so I don't care if there is censorship or not.

Iluvatar wrote:

Is referencing Mu* affiliation via avatar or title acceptible or would you prefer all forms of advertising not be used?


I think having your mud details in your profile or even your sig is perfectly acceptable. It's also natural people will use their own muds as examples during discussions. Of course it would be the moderators job to draw the line between relevant discussion and blatant self promotion.
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Kyuss



Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 37
Location: Southern Hellinois

PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2005 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Newbie forums are a nice place for morons like myself to occasionaly
ask damn stupid questions Smile Sorry if its insulting.

Dont worry Tyche, im about to email you in response to your article on
Cygwin anyway. And alll of the headaches its caused me too!!!!
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Ashon



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 86
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2005 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
My perception of acceptible language is basically if they can freely say it on Prime Time Network TV without bleeping, then it's common, modern speech whether we agree personally or not. Do you concur or would you prefer to just let the maturity level demonstrated by the posters dictate potential actions if any?


While I don't have any problem with language, If we go with a no-language filter, do we have to put a warning up? I don't recall if there was one when I signed up or not.

Quote:
We know how blatant flaming became an issue on TMS and there will always be some to a certain extent. From what I've seen, generally flames flare for a bit then gradually die out unless some fool repeatedly stokes the fire. Any guidance on when enough is enough?


I'd say a Signal to noise ratio of 3/1 is pretty good but when it starts creeping up to 3/2 or heaven forbid 1/1 it's time to shut 'er down.

Quote:
Is referencing Mu* affiliation via avatar or title acceptible or would you prefer all forms of advertising not be used?


I think Eiz, said it best, when he said:
Quote:
Well, imagine you removed the name of the mud and obscured the name of the poster. Is the post still relevant? If so, I think it's OK.
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Rendelven



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 6
Location: Arkansas

PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2005 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as language goes: who are we targeting with this forum?

The decision on what language is allowed might be a little more justified if we choose a certain demographic for our audience. I assume we are targeting, for the most part, mature english-speaking adults?

I personally have no problem with language and despise censorship. Smile I'm sure as long as we don't have threads full of useless garbage riddled with swearing, we will be alright.

Although, there are quite a few younger people who enjoy Mud Design and shouldn't be excluded. I remember there being some kind of waiver or agreement when you create an account on the forum which says you are atleast 13 years old.

Perhaps a little disclaimer as to what language CAN be expected? Ofcourse, it depends on what is decided acceptable. Smile
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eiz



Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 152
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2005 6:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Question for Moderators Reply with quote

Tyche wrote:

The subsilver theme is gone.
It's dark in here.


Sorry. Might bring it back later. I added attachment support for the code vault and I haven't gotten around to updating the subsilver template.

</offtopic>

Scandum wrote:
I must say that I've always been annoyed by total newbies spamming TMC with their requests for coding help. The newbie forum seems indeed an invitation for that kind of background noise.


Well it depends on how newbie we're talking about here. I'm not a big fan of the "hey guys teach me to code!!" posts either, nor the "I tried installing a snippet in my stock dikumud and now it's broken" posts, but where exactly do you draw the line? Besides, a newbie forum gives us a place to move those posts to when they inevitably arise. And they will, if news of the forum reaches that far. Razz
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Samson



Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 4
Location: United Socialist States of America

PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2005 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see a problem with language issues myself either as long as the post isn't laced with profanities every other word. Such posts usually don't have much point to them anyway and would probably not be on point.

As far as a newbie forum, may as well have it since they will come and they will ask, so at least there is somewhere to put things that should be there. Besides, we were all newbies at one point in time.
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